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Debate: Afghanistan

Terrorism: Connections

by Allan Behm - 22 July 2009 9:48AM

Allan Behm, a former head of the International Policy and Strategy Divisions of the Department of Defence, is a risk analyst with Knowledge Pond.

Recent comments by Prime Minister Rudd and Foreign Minister Smith to the effect that the fighting in Afghanistan and the 17 July bombings in Jakarta are in some way connected because they are aspects of the 'international fight against terrorism' drew quick corrective therapy from the commentariat.

So often, as we saw with the phony 'Defence of Australia' debate a few years ago, what passes for conversation on important policy issues is more like barrackers shouting at each other, thinking different thoughts and speaking different languages. Perhaps talking past each other, rather than to each other, is an enduring Australian trait.

Professor Hugh White, as quoted by Michelle Grattan in The Age of 20 July, is quite right to claim that there is no causal connection between military operations in Afghanistan and the activities of Noordin Top. The suppression of Al Qaeda – the key objective of the Afghanistan campaign – will not of itself prevent terrorist acts in Indonesia.

As I pointed out in my paper 'What about the War on Terror?', regional terrorism, whether in southern Thailand, the southern Philippines or Indonesia, is driven by local issues (most often land tenure) with long historical antecedents. While regional terrorist groups may draw some comfort from the ideological propositions advanced by al Qaeda, their purposes are much more domestic. So, too, are their techniques.

To claim, however, that the Government is being 'intellectually dishonest' in drawing a link between events in Afghanistan and Indonesia misses the point. read more

Afghanistan: Knowing our limits

by Sam Roggeveen - 23 July 2009 11:29AM

Allan Behm ends his defence of the Afghanistan operation with the warning that Jemaah Islamiyah terrorist Noordin Top 'would derive considerable encouragement' from any Western decision to 'walk away from a military unwinnable fight against the Taliban'.

But when the fight against terrorism demands the continuation of a costly and unwinnable war, just because ending it would encourage terrorists, isn't it time to question our strategy? If we saw someone we didn't like continually butting their head against a brick wall, we wouldn't be intimidated by them or admire them for their toughness; instead, we'd question their sanity and perhaps think we had the upper hand against them.

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Reader ripostes: Limits in Afghanistan

by Fergus Hanson - 27 July 2009 10:25AM

Two readers have written in to comment on Sam's post on knowing our limits in Afghanistan. The first is from Major Gen (Retd) Jim Molan who is the author of Running the War in Iraq. Sam is away for a few days and will, no doubt, respond on return.

Sam’s post on Afghanistan (widely quoting Rory Stewart’s almost very good article) annoyed me so much, I have now tried three times to draft an answer. It reminded me that there is a vast difference between the real world and our comfortable world of commentary and blogging.

I recently quoted Karl Weick, Professor of Organisational Behaviour and Psychology at Michigan University, who said: 'Your beliefs are cause maps that you impose on the world, after which you “see” what you have already imposed. People expect their social world to be put together the way their justifications say it is put together, they act as if it is put together that way, and they selectively perceive what they see as if it were put together the way the justifications say it is.' Sam and Rory reminded me that it not only the military that does this.

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More on Afghanistan limits

by Sam Roggeveen - 30 July 2009 3:29PM

I'm sorry to have moved Jim Molan to such fury with my post about Afghanistan, but I can't find anything in the Allan Mallison article he recommends that changes my mind. As with many such articles, the arguments are mostly about what the coalition needs to do to build a functioning, self-defending Afghan democracy. But the overarching argument about whether that aim is even worthwhile is skated over very quickly.

Mallison says it's all about creating a state that won't harbour terrorists of the kind that perpetrated the 9/11 and London underground atrocities, which is fair enough as far as it goes. But if the Rory Stewart article I quoted is right, and that can be done with around 20,000 troops, why not confine the mission strictly to anti-terrorism rather than the incredibly ambitious nation-building strategy we now have?

Mallison alludes to broader strategic considerations, particularly Pakistan's nuclear status. My colleagues Michael Fullilove and Anthony Bubalo made a similar argument earlier this week in the Financial Review:

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Afghanistan: On the right track

by Jim Molan - 3 August 2009 2:05PM

Major Gen (Retd) Jim Molan is author of Running the War in Iraq.

The reasons Sam moved me to such annoyance are simple, and he mentions both of them in his riposte.

The first is the proposition that you only need 20,000 troops to do anything in Afghanistan. We did have 20,000 troops there at one stage and it did not quite work. I acknowledge that Rory Stewart might be right; there are no absolutes. What he advocates might work now when it did not work before in Afghanistan or Vietnam or Iraq or Malaya or Northern Ireland, but I doubt it, and what will Rory Stewart do if he is wrong?

The second issue that annoyed me in Sam's post is the examination of how we would approach the problem of Afghanistan if we were not there. The fact is that we are there and that presents a much greater policy problem to any government than not committing in the first place. It is much easier not to commit than it is to un-commit.

The issue in relation to Afghanistan is what to do now. The issue of why we are there and whether we should either pull out or continue is important. But given that we are there, and given that the probability of leaving seems to me to be very low, most of our brain power should be directed at how to proceed.

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Our immodest Afghanistan project

by Sam Roggeveen - 4 August 2009 11:17AM

It seems Jim Molan and I have been talking past each other. In his latest post, Jim says that, 'given that the probability of leaving seems to me to be very low, most of our brain power should be directed at how to proceed.' That means Jim wants to talk mostly about questions of 'how', whereas I remain stubbornly attached to discussing the 'why'.

Jim is probably right to say that it is too late to have the 'why' debate, because the die is cast. But good arguments can change minds and eventually change policy, so here are two points that summarise my scepticism about the Afghanistan operation, one specific and another general.

First, it is a misallocation of resources. This is particularly the case if you want to argue that our presence in Afghanistan is primarily about reducing the threat of terrorism — given the variety of lawless places from which an al Qaeda attack could spring, there is little justification for expending so many resources on denying them just one. As Stephen Biddle argues in his guarded defence of the Afghanistan mission: 

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Afghanistan: Narco-state

by Mark Corcoran - 4 August 2009 5:24PM

Mark Corcoran is has been a journalist with ABC-TV’s Foreign Correspondent program for 13 years. From 1998-2004 he spent considerable time in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran.

I think much of the debate triggered by Sam's post misses a crucial issue: setting aside the 'War on Terror' rhetoric for a moment, if the US-led forces achieve a short-term military victory in Afghanistan, what happens next? Exactly who are Australia and the NATO alliance fighting for? What kind of people are going to run this New Afghanistan?

When you put those questions to US officials over the past several years you got the usual empty, non-specific rhetoric about 'nation-building'. But a key security factor ignored by many in this debate is the simple, indisputable fact that Afghanistan is a narco-state. Half of all economic activity is derived from narcotics.

Kabul April 2009. Investigating narcotics trafficking in Afghanistan, it's easy to make enemies — and not just with the Taliban. Mark Corcoran of ABC-TV's Foreign Correspondent program, with his personal protection team.

I recently spent some time back in Kabul after an absence of five years, catching up with old acquaintances in 'leadership circles', as American diplomats so quaintly put it. What surprised me was not so much the scale of the narcotics trade – Afghanistan has long supplied the bulk of the world’s opium and heroin — but that so many of Afghanistan’s potential leaders are compromised by direct involvement or corruption fuelled by this narco-economy. It felt as though large sections of the government were no longer running a country but a vast criminal enterprise.

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Afghanistan: Time to belt up?

by Sam Roggeveen - 6 August 2009 9:35AM

The Afghanistan debate between Jim Molan, myself and others (click on the 'read more in this debate' button above to see the whole thread) has drawn heavily on a London Review of Books article by Rory Stewart.

Just to reinforce a point I made in one post about distinguishing between the 'how' and the 'why' of Afghanistan policy, I can't resist quoting Stewart again, this time from an interview with the Financial Times (h/t Drum):

“I do a lot of work with policymakers, but how much effect am I having?” he asks, pronging a mussel out of its shell.

“It’s like they’re coming in and saying to you, ‘I’m going to drive my car off a cliff. Should I or should I not wear a seatbelt?’ And you say, ‘I don’t think you should drive your car off the cliff.’ And they say, ‘No, no, that bit’s already been decided – the question is whether to wear a seatbelt.’ And you say, ‘Well, you might as well wear a seatbelt.’ And then they say, ‘We’ve consulted with policy expert Rory Stewart and he says ...’”

Afghanistan worth doing, even badly

by Jim Molan - 10 August 2009 2:12PM

Major Gen (Retd) Jim Molan is author of Running the War in Iraq.

In response to Sam, both the 'how' and the 'why' are important in Afghanistan – it just depends on how much effort we put into each, and which part of each we address.

If the 'why' question is focused on why we went there in the first place, we have plenty of time to consider it because it is essentially an academic exercise. To be intellectually honest, we would need to look at why went there first, then why we went back, why the Liberal Government made an initial commitment, why Labor then adopted the conflict and why its rhetoric is so much stronger than its commitment of resources, just as the Liberal Government's rhetoric was in Iraq.

We should also ask why, in any of the commitments so far, there is no alignment between objectives, tasks and resources. But we have lots of time to do that after we win or lose this war.

If the 'why' question is focused on why we should stay or leave given that we are actually there at the moment, then I think we are getting closer to immediate relevance. We should examine both courses of action, but both have consequences.

People who advocated leaving at tough times in Iraq only ever emphasised the consequences of staying. They seemed to think that if we left Iraq, there were no immediate, middle or long term consequences. It was the terrible staying, with death and destruction and unethical action, or it was leaving to play forever in the green fields beyond. We were obviously the problem and once we went then the problem and the symptoms disappeared.

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Thursday linkage: Afghanistan edition

by Sam Roggeveen - 13 August 2009 1:41PM

I'll respond to Jim Molan's recent Afghanistan post soon, but first I wanted to share some of the Afghanistan reading I've discovered in the blogosphere and media lately. This list is weighted toward the sceptical view of the Afghanistan operation that I support, though I did link to a couple of pro-war arguments on Tuesday, and there's an Anthony Cordesman article on this list too:

  • James Joyner at New Atlanticist has lots of links about the increasing scope of the Afghanistan mission, and the likelihood of further troop commitments.
  • The Washington Independent asks whether America's Afghanistan debate is changing.
  • Does defeating al Qaeda mean nation-building?
  • Anthony Cordesman, whose longer reports on Afghanistan you can read here, has an op-ed summing up the challenges and making recommendations for victory. He never gets around to saying why the mission is important.
  • Jari Lindholm disagrees with me and argues the coalition presence in Afghanstan has reduced the chances of nuclear war between India and Pakistan.
  • The New York Times is asking tough questions about the merits of the Afghanistan mission.
  • Abu Muquwama, one of the most influential blogs in the counter-insurgency debate, wonders whether Andrew Bacevich, who recently wrote this, might have a point.
  • And finally, from a post by Foreign Policy's Marc Lynch, one of the most widely quoted passages of late in this debate:

Suppose the U.S. succeeded beyond all its wildest expectations, and turned Afghanistan into Nirvana on Earth, an orderly, high GDP nirvana with universal health care and a robust wireless network (and even suppose that it did this without the expense depriving Americans of the same things). So what? Al-Qaeda (or what we call al-Qaeda) could easily migrate to Somalia, to Yemen, deeper into Pakistan, into the Caucasus, into Africa --- into a near infinite potential pool of ungoverned or semi-governed spaces with potentially supportive environments. Are we to commit the United States to bringing effective governance and free wireless to the entire world? On whose budget?

Afghanistan aims? Don't ask Holbrooke

by Sam Roggeveen - 14 August 2009 12:22PM

Well, this is reassuring. The speaker is US Special Envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, Richard Holbrooke:

Asked about how to measure success and progress in Afghanistan, Holbrooke remarked, "In the simplest sense...We'll know it when we see it."

To be fair, the NY Times reports that the National Security Adviser is working on a document setting out nine objectives for the mission, but they seem to reflect the worryingly expansive terms in which the Obama Administration now sees the Afghanistan operation: building the Afghan Army, decreasing corruption, increasing local cooperation with police and coalition forces, improving election processes. Marc Lynch takes the words out of my mouth:

...what happened between President Obama's March 27 declaration of a limited set of objectives --"I want the American people to understand that we have a clear and focused goal: to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the future"  -- and the expansive goals of "armed state building" which appear to now define the mission?

According to Jim Molan, 'the solution to reducing terrorism in Afghanistan looks a lot like nation-building', though he insists this is not equivalent to rebuilding the political, economic and social institutions of the country. So what is it equivalent to? And if counter-terrorism demands nation-building, then is Jim also in favour of nation-building missions in Yemen, Somalia, the southern Phillipines and half a dozen other lawless places around the world where al Qaeda could lodge itself?

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